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Peace2051's avatar

What evidence do you see, Andrew, that the "median human" is capable of ignoring his Maximum Power Principle nature?

Jack Santa Barbara's avatar

Andrew, thanks for this important discussion. Here are some thoughts on the MPP and the sustainability/values crisis that concerns us. I'd welcome your comments on these notions.

Let's step back to the transition from the Paleolithic period, when humans lived sustainably, to the rise of civilization. A key feature of civilization is the presence of food surplus (perhaps the first instance of any significant storable surplus humans experienced). The surplus had to be managed - to produce and maintain it, an example of the MPP. This led to the emergence of elite dominance to manage this surplus (I'm following Luke Kemp here).

Other means of organizing the surplus could have evolved, such as the self-governing settlements that seemed to precede the rise of empires/civilization.

One of the big advantages of a predictable and storable food surplus is that it ensured survival that might not otherwise have been possible. Consistent food surplus presented the opportunity for an unprecedented form of security and allowed for qualitative improvements in people's lives. An egalitarian, self-governing, animistic people could have evolved to apply the MPP to ensure sufficient surplus to deal with the vagaries of crop yields. They could have decided that a certain level of surplus was enough to provide food security and adequate leisure, rather than viewing the surplus as a means of gaining control over others. Such a scenario would have reflected very different values than what emerged from the rise of civilizations, where elite dominance via organized violence took hold.

I suspect the role of providing and managing a surplus is important to understand how we arrived at dominance hierarchies, obedience to authority and acceptance of organized violence as "normal." Perhaps it was the security the surplus provided that was so novel and valuable that people were willing to question their egalitarian values.

Hunter-gatherers and egalitarian pre-civilization settlements are assumed to have used anti-dominance tactics to thwart dominance behaviours. Somehow, the presence of surpluses changed that value. I suppose if some groups developed dominance hierarchies to manage the surplus, and had access to improved weapons (as Kemp suggests), they could have outcompeted those groups that attempted egalitarian approaches to managing the surplus.

I suggest the same dynamic is operative today. The majority have bought into the dominance hierarchy as natural and normal. The dominance hierarchy outcompetes those attempting to operate with different values that view sufficiency and egalitarianism as more adaptive in the long run. Yes, this dynamic runs amok with FF driven capitalism, but it is the underlying dynamic that seems important to understand if we have any chance of altering our current trajectory. I think this hypothesis about storable surpluses and the applicability of MPP fits with your notion of a values crisis. Your thoughts?

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